{ 81 comments… read them below or add one }

Vote -1 Vote +1Charlie Cutshaw
February 4, 2011 at 9:24 am

YOur comments are very insightful and I am in almost total agreement with you WRT preparedness and what to do WTSHTF. I was part of a Blackwater Security Team that went into New Orleans post Katrina when the city was abandoned and law enforcement had left for parts unknown. The only humans remaining were looters, some repair crews and us. The thugs were shooting at repeir crews and our orders were to shoot on sight any thugs who were shooting at repair crews, no questions asked. I think New Orleans post Katrina is a model for what will happen anywhere WTSHTF.
My wife and I decided long ago that if things went south in a major way, we weren’t going anywhere. We are well armed with rifles in military calilbers (.223 and .308), his & her shotguns in 12 and 2o gauge and handguns in 9mm (hers) and .45 ACP (mine). I am also a reserve police officer and am well known to all local law enforcement personnel. We have enough frozen MREs to last about three months. FYI, Army says that frozen MREs have an “indefinite” shelf life — far beyond that on the boxes. MREs admittedly aren’t gourment fare, but they will keep you alive WTSHTF.
As a professional writer, I enjoy your writing and insights. Keep up the good work!

Charlie Cutshaw
Contributing Editor, Harris Publications/SWAT Magazine
US Army 1964-79
RVN II CTZ 1969-70

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Robert
February 4, 2011 at 6:06 pm

One observation: Standardizing on very few calibers makes ammunition sharable and interchangable. When the ammo runs out the gun becomes much less effective for defense. Groups generally have to settle on something that the weakest / smallest defender can handle since even a small bang, bang is better than a big click, click.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1MP
February 5, 2011 at 11:49 pm

Amen to that idea, that was the method I started using when “advancing” in my gun hobby, especially when I got into reloading. I keep my handguns in the .38 caliber (9mm, .38 spl/.357 mag), rifles in 7.62 x 51/39 and .223, and shotgun in 12ga, along with the trusty .22. The idea behind this also is because I’m getting into molding bullets, these calibers also share the same bullets under many circumstances (pistol calibers can all use a 125gr bullet, 7.62 rifles can use the same 125 gr bullet used in the x39 caliber, .308′s are bolt guns).

I agree on the idea that ammo sharing is a lot easier this way, doesn’t make sense to have a bunch of different calibers as many of my hunting friends and gun nuts do. I would als like to think that when the SHTF, I can walk into a walmart and acquire more ammo (whether with cash or 5 finger discount after store’s abandoned). Also as a reloader, I can replenish my ammo supply by picking up spent brass, a lot easier if I have a gun that uses the most likely calibers to be found.

If for any other reason, getting a 1000 rd case of 762×39 or any other common caliber is a lot cheaper than trying to get a 1000 rds of 345 loudenbloomers that nobody ever stocks.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Ernst
February 11, 2011 at 6:05 pm

I have to agree after 40 years of hunting, reloading. Try to stick with common caliber less to reload and you can carry ammo that will fit every ones firearm in your group. I have invested in some doodads that allow you to shoot 20ga in a 12ga and so forth they don’t cost much or take up much room.
http://www.mcace.com/adapters.htm Do not shot 7.62 x 39 in .308 or 30.06
the 7.62 x 39 bullet is to large other than that the adapters will work.
http://www3.telus.net/gamegetter/Calibers.html
http://www.gaugemate.com/
These are a few this give you the idea.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Dave W
February 24, 2011 at 11:01 pm

My main guns are the AR-15′s. 5.56 or .223.The same ammo the U.S.milatary and police use.I have turned into a gun nut.
2 AR-15′s
1 DPMS Panther LR-308B
2 Remington 870 12 Ga.Shotguns
1 Browning B A R Sifari 300 Win.Mag.
1 Ruger M77 Hawkeye Alaskin 416 Ruger
1 Colt .45 ACP
1 Springfield XD .45 ACP
1 Ruger Super Blackhawk .44 magnum
1 Ruger Viqurio Bisley .44 magnum
And I still want more.I want a CZ 550 in 458 Lott.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Ted
July 3, 2011 at 12:00 am

I don’t agree with the multiple caliber thinkers. My sons and I have one caliber rifle (.223) and one caliber pistol (.45). We do not have to worry about trying to find all kinds of ammo WTSHTF. We have stock enough stuff to have thousands of reloads, and hundreds of loaded rounds for eack caliber. I do have a 10/22 (22 cal) for plinking and small game, just in case with about 5000 rds for it in the safe.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Steve london
February 5, 2011 at 6:40 am

Charlie,
I hate to disagree but the vast majority of the NOPD did not desert New Orleans during or after Katrina. As an attorney that represents many of those officers and one who stayed during Katrina I can attest to that.

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1StrictlyStock
February 6, 2011 at 10:33 am

They may not have deserted, but Nagin sending them on a vacation to Vegas because of the “stress” is really no different.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Dwight Turner
February 7, 2011 at 6:07 pm

I live in a community where the houses are close together. For home protection I have chosen to mostly depend on a shotgun. Buckshot only goes so far. High powered rifles can penetrate one or more of my neighbor’s houses and wound or kill one of my own neighbors. I do carry a Ruger 357 SP101 in an ankle holster while on my property, but would only use it at a close distance where there is a high chance that it would hit the perpetrator and not one of my neighbor’s house.

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1ray
February 4, 2011 at 9:37 am

please learn bacis first aid & cpr

were i come from in the hood where gun shot are normal

rules do not run with the crowd hit the ground

if your caught in a shooting and you are arm take cover filp tables what ever

stay out sight protect your perimter we were train a long time ago how to

survive all ways pay attention to every body ever place you go

never go in to a place where there is only one way in or out

common sense is your best training

this is life experience i live it every day do it and do it for real

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 4, 2011 at 12:17 pm

You’re right on, Ray. I’d encourage people to go as far beyond first aid and CPR as possible. Many local firearms trainers around the country have 1/2 day to multi day classes on trauma and multi-casualty situations…like the Army’s Combat Lifesaver Program. The skills that you learn in these classes will help after firearms incidents, knife incidents, explosions, earthquakes, building collapses, car accidents, and more.

These skills are not only great in a disaster, but for myself, advanced medical training made me MUCH more self aware (medically speaking) and made me a rabbid student of trauma and medical treatments.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1jim
February 4, 2011 at 10:10 am

David,
Your info on an active shooter is very realistic. I have a CCW badge and I would show it just to slow down whoever might be coming on scene. The badge coupled with “Security” would show that I wasn’t attempting to pass as a LEO.

I’m with you on staying put in most emergencies. My second home is in the mountains 500 miles away and the problem would be to get out of the L.A, metro area. The first 100 miles would be hell.

Jim

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1JLA
April 13, 2012 at 7:40 am

A better idea than the CCW badge, which will be illegal in many jurisdictions & can get you into trouble even in jurisdictions where they’re not strictly prohibited, may be the CCW Sash available from Brownell’s & others. It stores in a small pouch on your belt, and is brightly colored with the highly visible letters ‘CCW’ emblazoned front & back. It is primarily designed to alert responding police officers that you are not the bad guy, and would likely be pretty effective in doing so.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Ben-USMC
February 4, 2011 at 10:24 am

Tips — You may need fire. Buy a striker set. You strike the two together and it
makes a nice hot spark. Save the lint from your clothes dryer filter. Good tinder
and lights easy with the striker set. Also, fine steel wool burns very hot. Have a shredder? Pack shreded paper tightly in a bag. Very good tinder. Just ball some up and light with striker set. Leaning dead trees? Cut open with hatchet and inside probably still dry. Shave into tinder with knife. Go in the woods and collect dead branches. Break up and put in heavy duty contractors bags. Stow opened where out of rain and let dry. Close up bag and you have kindling. Buy bags of cheap charcoal & cheap bbq grill . Keep charcoal dry and use for cooking. Protect
your fire stuff. Keep inside til you need it.

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Robert
February 4, 2011 at 6:15 pm

Remember that charcoal is outdoor use only. When it is burned it produces large amounts of carbon monoxide. Also do not let it get wet since as it drys it is a spontaneous combustion hazard.

Reply

+3 Vote -1 Vote +1John
February 4, 2011 at 10:34 am

After Hurricane Andrew, and during the Rodney King riots, the problem wasn’t refugees – it was criminals invading the suburbs. ALL the gangbangers from Miami
headed south to Homestead after Andrew – it’s pretty difficult to defend your house when your windows are blown out. Criminals can walk right in.

A simple roadblock it to cut down a tree or trees so it falls across the road to your neighborhood – or can be dragged across the road with a truck. No, this is not a tank-proof barrier, but it may be enough to make the criminals drive away and try an easier area.

Due to the terrain of my suburban house, I can cut down two trees and make it impossible for anyone to drive up to my house.

A chainsaw in good repair, 2 cycle gas mixture, loppers and a winch are good to have. Remember – medical care may not be available, so have a hard-hat, eye protection, and sturdy work gloves.

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dan
February 4, 2011 at 11:04 am

Sir,

Thanks again for your insight & advice. (I’m the guy that brought up the question in last week’s newsletter.) This is all well & good, but perhaps I was unclear in my question. What I was originally trying to ask, in other words, was how does a civilian present himself to law enforcement after action?

The scenario that I’m questioning is something as follows; Unarmed civilian, no CCW, is in a place where there isn’t supposed to be any firearms anyway, ( In my mind it’s a campus because I’m a student.) Unknown quantity of shooter(s) decide to “go Viriginia” on the place. If, say, during a “pause in conflict” (jam, reload, ect) Concerned Citizen manages to strip a weapon from an assailant, how does he/she cooperate in a de-escalationafter the fact?

A lot of it is this. In this scenario the answer of, or anything similar to “I’d just holster my weapon & wait for the police to arrive…” isn’t relevant. That’s probably an appropriate protocol if one has used lethal force to defend one’s self at home, but the facet I was trying to illuminate was, “Concerned Citizen” doesn’t have a holster. He, in keeping with the law, (I live in California, so sometimes federal, state, county, & city laws are not all the same.) didn’t bring a firearm to a weapons free zone.

My understanding is that in the view of many, having a holster or not is the difference between being recognized as a citizen or a a criminal. The idea being that the criminal does not want the holster so he can toss the firearm to “clean himself up” in a hurry. I’d like to suggest that that might not be a hard fast rule.

OK, I have my own cell phone, so if I could I’d identifymyself to the dispatcher. If / when challenged by police no doubt I’d comply with any instructions. What I’m wondering is, do I clear the weapon & toss it out the window, then show my hands, or what? Clear the weapon & keep the magazine?

Anyway, thanks for all the advice, about this and everything else. If nothing else I’d like to remind your readers that the time to consider these questions is before it happens. As it happens might be too late.

Thanks again,
Dan

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1captain mike
February 4, 2011 at 3:44 pm

Dan – your scenario is pretty far-fetched, but OK. If you choose to confront an armed attacker you have taken the worst risk up front. If you are still alive, perhaps there are witnessess – there often are. That will help you. Stay in the area and do not look threatening. But “collateral damage” – that would be you – is part of what you risk. Stay alert. If a uniform shows up, eat dirt and drop the gun. Period. Anybody else will look scared as jell like you. If they hesitate to shoot you say “its not ME!” and point to the perp. They may be big heroes like you – if they assault YOU throw the weapon as far as you can and defend yourself as necessary. Shooting them is not an option. If you depart the scene, holster your weapon and keep your hands clear, but that is a really bad idea. You may be identified as a “guy with a gun running fron the scene”.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Dan
February 7, 2011 at 10:52 am

Thanks,
If my scenario is far fetched, in a way that’s a good thing. To me that means that there’s a good chance that I’ve covered most of the probabilities. I’d like to thank everyone for all the advice and especially Mr Morris for giving me the venue to research this.
Thanks again,
Dan

Reply

+2 Vote -1 Vote +1shannon
February 4, 2011 at 11:27 am

As a cch trainer in North Carolina,Ii would agree with what was said about stopping an active shooter. Both my training to teach the NC course and some activce shooter scenarios I have done as a side training excersise back up your advice. All I would add is that most people will probably let their good nature interfere with being really efective in an active shooter situation. Absolute, unbridaled violence is what is called for in response to an active shooeter. I am not a lawyer, either, and this is probably CONTRARY to good legal advice, but any active shooter MUST be put down FOR SURE, as quickly and as violently as possible. Mercy, the benefit of the doubt, the milk of human kindness have no place here. Excessive force charges and consequenses may result, but a rattlesnake is a rattlesnake.Make double sure he is dead, dead, dead.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 4, 2011 at 12:25 pm

Personally, when I train, I conciously train with the thought of stopping the threat and not emptying the magazine. Since 9mm FMJ shootings in OIF/OEF are taking an average of 5 center of mass shots to stop the threat, the line gets real fuzzy on where the line is between adequate and excessive force.

In addition, spare mag or not, I want to train with the possibility in mind that there may be additional threats.

Unfortunately, I know that I will have to make that decision in a fraction of a second and a jury will have hours or days to deliberate on it. I’m not saying that to discourage anyone…just to emphasize the fact that it’s not cut and dry, not consistant from one jurisdiction to another, and definitely something to think seriously about.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1captain mike
February 4, 2011 at 5:39 pm

Basically correct David. My only comments are
1) Nobody but military should be carrying ball ammo. JHP or a similar specialty round should be your choice, if you have one.
2) Ayoob says “shoot until they hit the ground”. Good advice. Deliberation may seem charitable to you, but any subsequent shots will be construed as “premeditation” by authorities or personal injury lawyers, even if the perp is still waving his weapon. A series of rapid shots (within reason) can be defended as disciplined reaction. As you say, there’s always another threat – only a fool would empty a mag with no justification.

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1rick case
February 13, 2011 at 8:41 pm

whew, captain,i hope you’ve vindicated the other posters! as for myself, the empty mag”thing” would raise an eyebrow, especially if your packin’ 17 rounds of .40 cal. i must ask, pray tell, what should i carry? no ball ammo(it just feeds too good) no FMJHP, that’s already illegal in my state. it looks like all i got is yellin’ out BANG,BANG-you’re dead. what say yee to that? i do have a box of 1960′s wadcutters in 38 special that should save myself and my loved ones,right?

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1JLA
April 13, 2012 at 8:01 am

If you live in a jurisdiction where hollowpoints are illegal, New Jersey for example, the best course of action would be to move to a free state as quickly as possible. If that is not possible there are still several options available. If you carry a revolver wadcutters are actually pretty effective, especially in the larger .40+ caliber bore sizes. Better yet are rounds like Corbon’s Powerball & Federal’s Expanding Full Metal Jacket. I think Federal renamed their EFMJ rounds as the new ‘Guard Dog’ line of defensive ammo, but it uses the same bullets. They look like standard tuncated cone or flat point full metal jackets, but expand even better than most HP’s. Powerball rounds look & feed much like standard round nose FMJ’s, but also expand very well. I don’t know how the Commie states would treat loads using Hornady’s FTX bullets such as their Critical Defense & Critical Duty lines, but I would probably avoid them just in case. You might even say the same thing about Powerball ammo given that it is essentially a large HP that’s been stuffed with a plastic ball. The Federal Guard Dog loads should be pretty safe though. It would be nigh on impossible for any scumbag prosecutor to argue that one of those bullets is in anyway a hollowpoint!

BTW, you might also consider getting politically active & working to change the ridiculous laws where to live!!!

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Glenn Finley
February 4, 2011 at 11:41 am

Here in Texas you don’t want to show one of those CCW badges. It will get you thrown in jail quickly. Yelling “security!” is probably the best thing you can do, since most of us are familiar with plainclothes security at some venues. And for those who carry legally concealed in Texas, there are a couple of law companies who sell insurance that covers you after you pull your weapon and fire it. I use Texas Law Shield. It costs just over $200 for me and my partner, she costs less because she does not have a Concealed Handgun License and I do. It’s cheap insurance if you run the costs by a lawyer, he’ll tell you it’ll cost you at least $20K just to get to the grand jury, and you will go. It’s worth looking into in your state to see if you have something like it.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Joann
February 4, 2011 at 11:51 am

We were taught in CCW class; think before you draw your weapon. Once you draw, empty your clip.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Ern
February 4, 2011 at 12:47 pm

I hope they (CCL Class) taught you to carry an extra magazine, even a back up weapon. Predators usually run in packs.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Robert
February 4, 2011 at 6:27 pm

True of preditors — not of crazies.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1mickey
February 4, 2011 at 12:09 pm

Most Christians do not even have a clue about what they believe,most of them have never even studied a BIBLE. THEY have never studied or have been taught any BIBLE DOCTRINE.THAT is why they are like that. CHRISTIANITY is in a toyal state of shambles,and that is why the country is so messed up.GOD could be removing HIS protection from this country and if this is so we are in deep trouble.most churches are nothing but religious country clubs. YOU SAY THAT YOU HAVE FAITH THEN PROVE IT. FOR SOME ADVICE FROM GOD READ THE BOOK OF PROVERBS. HAVE A NICE DAY. FOR every action you take there is a consequence either good or bad. if you jump off of a building do not get angry at the concrete below.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 4, 2011 at 12:29 pm

I’m a BIG fan of the wisdom in Proverbs. FYI, there are 31 short chapters in Proverbs and 28-31 days in the month, so for several years I’ve read the chapter that corresponds to the day of the month.

Reply

+2 Vote -1 Vote +1Elaine Brock
February 5, 2011 at 8:06 am

I am a born again christian and a survivalist. The Bible gives me the right and obligation to not only provide but to protect my family.So if things do go south and the Lord has not come,I will praise the Lord and pass the ammunition.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1JDH
February 5, 2011 at 9:03 pm

Mickey…”Judge not, lest ye be judged”

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Arthur
February 7, 2011 at 12:55 pm

I think they were trying to make a point !! Been there & seen that too ! Jest sayin…..

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Lonnie Williams
February 4, 2011 at 12:13 pm

David, another GEM!!! You may never know how many lives you’re saving or the grief you’re sparing people with your insights. About bugging out, David covered this in his course when he talked about timing & having solid information. Leave too soon…mistake, you left for nothing. Wait to long…bigger mistake, road blocks will be up (man-made or man-caused) and you’ll be among more desperate people & situations, unable to go either direction. If it were me, I would risk the former to avoid the latter. Awsome info!!!

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Nathan
February 4, 2011 at 12:24 pm

Excellent article David. Right to the point and stimulates thought on what to do.

I have been told by a firearms instructor that if I’m involved in an “active shooter” scenario that I should dial 911 while holding anyone else at bay with my weapon. When the police show, put the gun on a table, trunk lid (somewhere accessible, but not threatening), etc. raise your empty hands and tell the police that you are the one that called 911, that you’d like to file a complaint against the assailant and press charges and that you have a CC permit (if applicable). Also tell them that you’d like to talk with an attorney before answering any more questions. This lets them know that you know what you’re doing, and gives them enough information not to worry about who you are. Would a criminal, or bad guy know to say this? Probably not.

Keep up the informative articles and God bless. Pray for peace in America. I sure as heck hope I don’t have to use the stuff I’ve been collecting for preparedness.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Triathlete007
February 4, 2011 at 7:28 pm

Sounds like you’ve been to Front Sight.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Lisa C
February 4, 2011 at 12:33 pm

For those of us that plan to stay put and are making our preperations, my question is what can we do to prepare for the law enforcement/security teams if and when they come through and tell us we have to leave. We have all seen the video of the law abiding citiz. in N.O whose firearm was taken from her. We have taken your SurviveInPlace course (downloaded everything, have not finished it yet!) and are far ahead of most. I don’t plan on leaving, what is the best way to relay this and have it respected without getting tackled/arrested or worse? I am in a large city and making friends with the police is not really an option ~ we don’t have the same officers on patrol in the area all the time. I do know some police officers however that may be helpful in getting me in contact with the right people if there is something I can do now. Thanks for all you do. ~marli

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Robert
February 4, 2011 at 6:37 pm

Question: If you do not answer your door do the police kick the door in and search your house? (Even if it appears dark and empty.)

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1mike
February 4, 2011 at 12:37 pm

I think you are right on with your suggestions for what to do after shooting. The more control you can establish over the situation the better. People need direction and involving others in calling 911, assessing first aid needs, etc. The better. Not only will it restore a touch of order to the chaos, but it will ensure that plenty of witnesses see you as a ‘good guy” so it will be easier for the police to quickly establish that you acted responsibly.

With respect to local roadblocks, being a member of a CERT team provides you with Identification, a vest and hardhat, which may help your credibility..

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 4, 2011 at 12:41 pm

Yup…CERT, Medical Reserve Corps, Security License, and basically any other legitimate ID that identifies you as a first responder.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Ben Martino
February 4, 2011 at 6:05 pm

True Dave…. EXCEPT when you have to leave your area and go into another city/town, or the next state over to get to your BOL …. They’ll be wondering WHY you are leaving your area…

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Artemes Gordon
February 4, 2011 at 1:28 pm

The views & responses to the Active Shooter scenario are interesting, but don’t simplify things. I suggest…

1. Engage and Disarm. Engage the shooter from behind cover, if possible, and keep firing until you can safely disarm the downed shooter. This will happen very fast, much faster than you anticipate. Even down on the ground the active shooter can kill you. This is not a “Law Enforcement Officer” apprehension situation. You will most likely have to advance rapidly to complete the disarming after hitting the Active Shooter. Your adrenaline will be up and your skills/perception diminished with tunnel focus. If there is more than one Active Shooter, you have no choice but to terminate each shooter ASAP. This is solely about your survival and the safety of other citizens or family members around you.

2. Withdraw to a Safe Location. When the engagement is complete, withdraw quickly to a safe location. Do not stand there over the shooter making yourself the next target of his accomplices, family or some well meaning armed bystander who arrives. Choosing to withdraw to a safe location in a multiple Active Shooter scenario is a wise decision.

3. Holster or Re-conceal your weapon. No matter what the dispatcher told the responding officers they are seeking a shooter and will initially mistake you for the Active Shooter if you display a weapon. If officers encounter you, follow their exact commands promptly without verbal pushback. They cannot differentiate between armed citizen and criminal at this point.

4. Decision Time. If you do not encounter law enforcement, you have to make the decision to either stand fast from a safe distance/location and deal with the consequences when they eventually arrive and sort things out, or withdraw completely (walking not running) and immediately obtain legal counsel.

No matter the situation, nor what the witnesses inform police, you will be apprehended as a criminal pending the District or County Attorney’s decision to charge or release you. They will not be in a hurry to release you. Law Enforcement will desire long, arduous interrogations while your future attorney will want you to be perfectly silent and decline to answer anything. No, “the Truth will not set You Free!” Your attorney wants to speak for you and can say things you cannot. This isn’t like TV. The players aren’t bright or witty. Your freedom is at stake. If still alive, the Active Shooter will have created fiction with the assistance of his attorney that makes you appear to be the criminal that initiated the whole scenario.

Reply

+2 Vote -1 Vote +1Eric
February 8, 2011 at 2:04 pm

Good advice! Your going to be suffering from a real adrenalin high and likely won’t remember a lot of whats been discussed here. Once in custody keep your mouth shut. The 5th amendment is there to protect you. Remember “can and WILL be used against you”. Many innocent people have been prosecuted with their own statements!

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Johnny
February 4, 2011 at 1:46 pm

I was once in a situation where I had to confront multiple aggressors, anyway’ I ended up having to shooting one of them. What worked in my defense and got me cleared (after a trial) was the fact that everybody who took the stand (offense and defense) said that in my initial confrontation it started off with me saying “Can I help you” while holding a pistol out of sight and behind my back so as not to intimidate or appear threatening, I also spoke calmly and used no profanity that could escalate the situation.

This was a big factor in my getting the charges dismissed, he who goes looking for trouble often finds it – but it will be those who were not even there deciding your fate – it’s best to identify yourself as one of the many court room sheep to identify with those who are going to be judging you.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Scott Lloyd
February 4, 2011 at 2:20 pm

Years ago I read an article about the urban assault vehicle. A heavy duty 4×4 to get around stalled traffic, extra fuel, and room for cargo/ supplies.

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Greg
February 5, 2011 at 9:55 am

Yeah, it’s called a Chevy Suburban. 4 wheel drive, 44 gallon gas tank, lots of cargo and roof rack space, with seating for 8 people.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1anton meyers
February 5, 2011 at 10:00 pm

…unless youre alone–then might a geo tracker be a more affordable alternative? Good on gas with 4wd…

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1StrictlyStock
February 6, 2011 at 10:47 am

I’d recommend packing at least two spares. And tire chains – in fact, chains can be almost as good as 4wd, and better if using highway tires. A winch is a nice option and not all that expensive. Couple of pulley blocks and a winch and a guy can get out of some nasty situations.

Reply

+3 Vote -1 Vote +1rick dormeyer
February 4, 2011 at 3:19 pm

everything good about the info and comments.
Combat Sgt. Vietnam C.I.B etc. From experiences of all sorts in combat, indecision is contradictory, and usually fatal. Every situation is different, training is critical and so are those around you or alone. I pity the sheeple, I am a child of humanity and wish most humans would wake up.
rick

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Artemes Gordon
February 4, 2011 at 4:26 pm

Bugging Out vs. Bugging In.

In a true Teotwawki or large scale natural disaster, the estimated survival rate is estimated at only 10 of the population after one year.

I suggest folks read One Second After by Willam R. Forstchen and then make their own decision about which battles to fight, homefront or refugee.

After I had begun to consider the scenarios to stay and to flee, I read the book and have reassessed the risk. One challenge I still face is believing the govt if they order me to evacuate. I’m not real warm to becoming a refugee with grade school age children. The novel presents a brutal, but realistic story and subplots that made me reconsider my Bug Out plans. I never though about choosing the neighbors to fight along side of???????

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1StrictlyStock
February 6, 2011 at 10:53 am

If you can point to one thing the gov’t does right, you might have a basis to trust them with your future. Otherwise, lay low until they think your area is clear.

Form a neighborhood watch. It’s good for the present and you’ll know the reliability of those who don’t bug out in a disaster.

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 6, 2011 at 6:32 pm

One Second After is a great book and my book was paired with it for a few months last year on Amazon.

Here’s the thing that you have to keep in mind on bugging out vs. SurvivingInPlace….bugging out depends on your vehicle working (think EMP), everyone being home when “it” happens, and that you are carrying little enough that you can get on the road and beat the masses along the entire route from where you live to your retreat location.

In practical terms, it means that unless you can guarantee perfect timing, a working method of transportation, and your whole family being together, you need to have a SurviveInPlace plan in place, even if your primary plan is to bug-out.

It also means that, due to the probability that you’ll have to move fast and light, that having redundant supplies in your urban location and rural location would be wise.

Of course, it also depends on what disaster serves as the tipping point to make you bug-out. With an EMP, you won’t have any warning. With a CME, you might have a couple of days. With a currency collapse, you’ll probably be able to beat the masses. With a shutdown or breakdown of electronic banking, there may or may not be immediate mass evacuations and you may or may not have any problems.

That’s why I try to stress the fact that there are many ways to skin the cat of preparedness and survival. If we knew the exact disaster that was going to happen and knew the day it was going to happen, it would be a lot more cut and dry. This is also why I stress survival and preparedness fundamentals in the SurviveInPlace.com course. I want to have a plan that will work in as many situations as possible for as many people as possible.

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Woolval
February 8, 2011 at 12:04 pm

I just finished reading One Second After and I agree… it is a great book and frightening in how it shows our society would probably collapse. I’ve also read Light Out by David Crawford and Patriots by James Wesley Rawles. All three books end in collapse, with Patriots seeming to be a vision of how our economy is on its way to imploding. But even in Patriots the electricity fails! (sorry if I gave something away)

All three books taught me that it takes a group of people to be able to survive. I’ve done a fair amount (seems like it, but my preparations are probably extremely inadequate) but I’ve come to realize that, alone (my wife and I) I would be an easy target for a group of hungry people.

David, I’m going to go back through your lessons and pay closer attention. I’ve also started to print things out and get them organized in binders. No electricity will make this computer useless!!

I hope more people will read these books… they’ll really get you thinking outside your comfort zone. I’ve given Lights Out to my neighbor, hoping he will see the wisdom of preparation and teamwork.

Thanks for all the posts. I continue to learn.

Woolval

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Ship Carpenter
February 4, 2011 at 4:45 pm

Local road blocking is a huge tactical and moral mistake.

Like a mighty oak tree before a storm, a small town in the way of a major scale large city evacuation has got devastating problems regardless of roadblocks.

Have you seen rush hour traffic in LA, Atlanta, New York? Think millions. Roadblocks are NOT going to stop car-loaded legions of starving, exhausted, desperate men, women, children and elderly looking to escape. Are you going to shoot folks as a warning and dump all their vehicles? Crucify grandma along the Appian Way like Spartacus’ army? Or block the roads to a standstill until thousands of cars run out of gas? Now you do have throngs of walking dead to deal with and you can bet more than a few will be armed! Second, has everyone forgotten this is America?! The roads are mostly paid with Federal funds and refugees paid taxes too. Plus roadblocks do not live up to Constitutional law or American ideals. Are you for or against the British at Lexington and Concord? It’s plain ‘ol un-American to act like a uniformed Nazi or those LEO thugs in that town next to New Orleans we all despise. And some people have a big ‘ol gun that can shoot real, real far away. Do you really want to get in a pissing contest with your lil’ ‘ol .223 or .308, Sgt. Rambo? You’ll never see that .30-06 or .300WinMag shot and now you’re dead or wounded. There are no available meds around plus who will look after your family? And after the crisis, a few weeks, months or years later, why should any government progress include a little dung hole of a town that showed true fascist behavior towards the populace. Finally, what would Jesus do? Not very Christian to turn one’s back on desperate strangers in serious need. Muslim tenets require offering travelers aid. So conserve scarce resources and plan on danger, but don’t behave like a target protecting it’s feathered nest. That attracts attention.

Better to Keep ‘em moving, Rawhide. Pass right on through. That way, folks. Gas station’s empty. Grocer’s empty. Hotel’s closed. Charity exhausted. Random 3 man patrols. Ready Minutemen. Looter’s will be shot. Fresh water station 10 miles outside of town. Nothing to see here. Keep moving, please. God Bless America and Keep moving, please.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 4, 2011 at 7:04 pm

Thanks for your input on this. It’s obvious that you’re very passionate about the subject, but I think you might have taken my article, created a scenario in your mind, and gone (perhaps) a little off track with it. There are several points that I could address, but I’ll just address a few of the biggies.

Keep in mind that towns within a few hundred miles of New Orleans are very passionate about never letting their towns get overrun by refugees again. They learned tough lessons that other towns and cities can learn from.

Another thing to keep in mind is that the scenario that you described will most likely not mesh with reality. In reality, people bugging out CAN keep moving. They can go around…they just can’t go through towns that understand that absorbing hundreds or thousands of refugees from big cities is a threat to the security of their residents.

Refugees will have the option of simply adapting and overcoming the roadblock by going another way or senselessly escalating the situation, like you suggest. I am obviously opposed to this and hesitated to allow your comment because of your statements. They are EXACTLY the kind of statements made by a tiny minority that give preppers as a whole a bad name. I think you should seriously reconsider your position, or at least consider presenting it in a different way in the future. In reading your comments, I could see your passion increasing with each sentence, and that can be a good thing, but in this case I think the comments went a little too far.

As to what Jesus would do and whether or not it is “Christian” to protect a small town…that argument is heartfelt, but does not address the reality of the situation. The job of city officials is to protect their population, and in the case of a population center in the path of urban refugees after a disaster, the refugees are one of the biggest dangers that towns need to protect themselves from. It is not the job of a city or town to be “Christian.” That is an individual choice that each member of the town will be free to make and will be proven out with individual actions.

Anyone in these towns who wants to be charitable will be free to leave the city and give as much of THEIR food, water, gas, and other supplies away to refugees as they want. It is the option of every individual, but not the obligation of a city or town to give aid to outsiders after a disaster. This brings up the whole argument of individual charity vs. corporate (corporate as in group, not company) charity.

In short, would you rather help outsiders as you see fit (or are led) or would you rather have your local town order you to give up supplies to be charitable to outsiders? This is SUCH an important point, and one that towns need to flush out and address now, rather than when the golden horde is only hours away.

As to federal funds paying for the roads…if you’ve ever driven through a small town, you’ve probably seen signs that say something to the effect of, “State maintenance ends here” and “State maintenance begins here.” This is the boundary between where the state maintains the road and where the local municipality maintains the road.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Ship Carpenter
February 6, 2011 at 1:12 am

My post offers practical, constitutional, and moral considerations to NOT roadblock and suggests free passage is also a tactical option to consider. My reference to the imminent danger to an exposed, out-numbered and out-gunned civilian/police from an armed and desperate “golden horde” only illustrated one of many reasons to rethink local roadblocks. Please do not accuse me of advocating sniping the police. Thank you for your considering my response.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 6, 2011 at 6:46 pm

I edited out the segment in my reply about sniping after reading your reply.

In the cities that I know about, free passage will be allowed…just not THROUGH town. People can still get to the other side, they just have to navigate around the city or town.

This is the only way to preserve the integrity of citys and towns along the pathway of urban refugees. Like I said, it doesn’t mean that the individuals can’t be charitible.

I would have to disagree with you that it is immoral or unconstitutional for city/town officials to do whatever is necessary to preserve the integrity of their community, provide as stable of a framework as possible for their citizens, and do what they can to protect the weakest among them. It is the citizens of the community who pay taxes, vote officials into office, and give them power. The elected officials’ responsibility is to take care of the citizens that they work for, not the refugees.

Reply

+3 Vote -1 Vote +1GTI
February 4, 2011 at 8:15 pm

Trust me if you don’t want to be arrested, manhandled and generally treated like the criminal that you shot, don’t get involved.

Long story short while minding my own business at a gas station I was confronted by a very large man that wanted whatever money I had. Having had no training in such situations I made every mistake in the book. I pulled my gun out of my truck going to scare him off…. Big surprise when that didn’t work! Fortunately for me he did not have a gun but he did decided to call my bluff with an edged weapon. As has been stated and I have learned over the years adrenalin plays havoc with fine motor skills. I did shoot at the man for a total of three shots fired. I aimed center of mass, used bona fide black talon ammo and went to the range regularly. After three shots he was still standing. The fight was gone out of him and he got into his car and drove off. All of which was witnessed by the gas station attendant. I placed my pistol in my vehicle and went to go inside the store to call police, 911, whatever (cell technology was not here yet). Before I could get inside three responding police cars arrived lights and sirens. I complied with every request but was treated in a manner that can only be described as roughly if not worse. I was arrested and held for fifteen hours, no phone calls for first twelve hours and questioned (interrogated) relentlessly. They ended up charging me with brandishing a firearm and discharge of a firearm in city limits which were later dropped. The guy I shot was found in the hospital and prosecuted and went to jail. But he

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Dale
February 4, 2011 at 8:53 pm

Hi. As a new member, I value this information, but I have a huge leap to make: whether or not to buy a gun.

I guess I have been fortunate. In more than 40 years living internationally, I have survived 2 coups and several armed robberies; I’ve also managed to disarm two people who were threatening vulnerable strangers. I am 5’4″ tall, average weight for a woman, with awareness training but no self defense skills other than focus and will. It probably will sound silly to you, but I am concerned that arming myself will both diminish those skills and put me in a one-down position, as there will always be someone with a bigger weapon and/ or a greater willingness to kill.

At the same time, I realize that a gun has its value.

Can you speak to my concerns?

Thanks!

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Mr. Eric
February 5, 2011 at 1:08 pm

Hi Dale,

Philisophically, I would argue that aquiring a firearm would enhance the level of your focus and will as well as increase opportunities for choices for surviving.

If one considers a firearm as tool; then the tool is an extenstion of one’s self to use to in order to translate one’s will to survive into reality-much like the sculpter chishel translates his idea into a statue-starts from an idea, a decision to act, energized by the will to do so. By extension, I refer to the firearm increaseing the space between you and the problem (chisels have their own range);)

However, over reliance on one means will definitely deminsh options too. The Sumari were great swordsmen, but when they lost their swords in battle, they still had the hand-to-hand skills to default to-and sufficient will to translate action into survival. So, skills in depth is the idea. So if you do decide to acquire a firearm, train like a sumari and keep your other skills up too.

Then, there is always the consideration of keeping leathal tools around where kids and uninvited guests can get hold of them when they are out of your control, and all the other considerations in David’s lessons.

Good luck with your choice, hope this was helpful

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Dale
February 6, 2011 at 10:47 am

Thank you for your thoughtful words. I probably would not have asked the question were I not leaning toward arming myself. Part of this is a recognition that as I grow older, my body may not always respond as I might wish.

Any thoughts on that aspect?

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Mr. Eric
February 11, 2011 at 3:27 pm

Hi again Dale,

Train better than you have to be, so you can be as good as you can be is the idea that comes to mind WRT your question. If you do procure a firearm and have a change in premises for having one, you’ll have something of intrisic value to trade later down the road and will have had a lot of fun in training with nice folk who take individual responsiblity seriously–not a bad crowd to be networked into. Expanding one’s influence in a trusted network can also increase one’s security which, as I see it, helps to balance the moral (hearts and minds/politcal) and material (guns, butter, beans, and bullets) aspects of survival when society’s equilibrium is disrupted. For sure, the roles of influence and persuasion usually deminish in high stress situations (moral) to where physical acts of compellence or deterrence (material) will keep one’s network functional and/or preserve a life. So, rhetorical question: Where do you physically stand in terms of ability to defend yourself by all means necessary? What skill-sets can you bring to the table for defense of your “network?”

Have fun!

E

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 6, 2011 at 6:57 pm

Hey Dale, welcome!

A firearm is simply a tool. It happens to be a tool that can level the playing field between an elderly person and a young bruiser or someone in a wheelchair and a beefy ex-con. It’ll work for them and it’ll work for most other people as an equalizer.

I happen to be VERY pro gun. Where solid hand to hand skills will only help you AFTER you have used them and proved your proficiency, firearms have the ability to completely stop violence without having to use them. You should never count on this to happen, but the fact that it regularly does is powerful.

If you decide to get a firearm, make sure that you get as much professional training with it as you can afford. In fact, I’d recommend taking your first class with a loaner gun before you even buy your gun. It insures that you don’t have a period of time where you have a weapon that you don’t know how to use. It will also help you figure out whether or not you actually like the firearm that you think you want.

In most areas, there are “intro to firearms” classes where they let you shoot revolvers, sub-compacts, compacts, full size pistols, rifles, and shotguns. They cover fundamentals and then introduce you to several different guns so that your decision on what gun to buy isn’t based on which gun “looks” the best or which gun the guy behind the counter likes.

Reply

-2 Vote -1 Vote +1Darksky
February 5, 2011 at 2:38 am

If you have a BOL make sure that you have a second drivers license that has that address on it & put your every day license in a safe place before you head out to the BOL.

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Bill Meinhardt
February 5, 2011 at 8:05 am

David, I was a Deputy Sheriff and served under two separate administrations. After leaving the Sheriff’s department, I became an Asset Recovery Agent for around thirty banks.
I was licensed as a “Private Investigator” in Kentucky
I made over thirty six hundred, involuntary vehicle recoveries. I had to deal with all manner of debtors , their relatives and neighbors .

I averaged an “armed incident “per month.

In dealing with responding police agencies from nine separate counties and the State of Kentucky. I learned how to do this, without getting shot or arrested.

This is my suggestion regarding establishing a command presents, until officers arrive.

Keep your attention centered on your assailant and the crowd surrounding you.

Do not hold up any false identification. Keep your weapon leveled on the threat and yell “Police”, followed by “someone call 911 please”.
The crowd will assume you are identifying your self as a police officer. You are not, you are shouting for a “Police Officer”!

Establish your self as the person in charge by issuing orders in a calm but firm voice. When I was an officer, this was called your “Command Voice.’

This is what you need to do , ask , (this is not an actual order, but a firm request ) any witnesses to remain on the scene.

You should make your firm request like this, “Sir I need you to remain here ! Would you sit right here please?

When the first officer arrives, keep your attention focused on the assailant and tell him “Officer watch this guy, I’m holstering my weapon”!

Do not throw your weapon on the ground . Holster it and hold your hands high over your head, with both hands visible to the officer.

Follow his commands completely!

If you are asked if you identified your self as a police officer , your answer is “No Sir , I yelled for the police” if someone assumed I was an officer, that was their mistake!
Remember you did not offer any ID to the crowd, but they will assume you are a cop, because you acted like one.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 6, 2011 at 6:58 pm

Thanks, Bill.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Fred Squillante
February 5, 2011 at 3:02 pm

You made this comment:

“You need to decide whether or not you would yell anything if you were confronting an active shooter. If you are carrying a compact pistol and the active shooter has already shot people with a rifle, do you want to make yourself a target by announcing your presence?

The shooter will have already crossed the line of being willing to take a life with a firearm and won’t have a reactionary gap when they get their sights lined up on you. You, on the other hand, being a non psychopathic person who respects life, may hesitate. Not announcing your presence and giving the shooter a chance to drop their weapon may make you a criminal and/or a murderer…especially if you are behind the shooter and have the opportunity to escape.”

My question is 2 fold: if I ‘use the opportunity to escape’ what kind of a coward does that make me, especially if the shooter has already shot someone. If the shooter is moving around and I get a clear shot, even from behind, why shouldn’t I take it? I have a CCW and live in Florida where the law allows you to ‘stand in someone elses shoes.’

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 6, 2011 at 7:08 pm

Well, leaving may make you (or me) a coward.

If I’m out shopping and I’ve got my little boy walking next to me and my toddler in a chest carrier, I’ll be one of the first “cowards” to leave the area–if I have the opportunity.

Since I’ve got little kids who may be with me with or without my wife, retreat is a serious option for me.

In addition, I wouldn’t expect an elderly concealed carry holder, injured concealed carry holder, or handicapped concealed carry holder to go all “Wyatt Earp” and charge into danger and go head to head with a active shooter if they have the opportunity to safely retreat or hide.

Again, this is a question that doesn’t have a cut and dry answer and it’s going to depend on your skill level, your situation, and the situation you’re presented with.

Don’t feel bad if these scenarios didn’t come to mind. If they don’t apply to you, there’s no reason for you to have put yourself in my shoes or anyone else’s who has reduced mobility and reaction time.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1tiacarolann
February 5, 2011 at 9:56 pm

I live in small town in S. Florida. When I saw in Florida law that upon a ‘national disaster’ or ‘emergency’ they can force us to have ‘flu shots’ or ‘quarantine’ us.
so I will tack up a nice neat ‘quarantine’ poster if/when that day arrives, as I will not leave my home nor be given any shot against my will.
Praise the Lord and pass the ammunition !! AMEN
side note.. I heard a helicopter for 45 min, with searchlight going overhead.Called dispatch ‘everything is ok mam, don’t worry about anything’
I then called n-hood watch and he said they were looking for a perp on foot.
I will call sheriff and complain about dispatch monday am..

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Harold
February 6, 2011 at 5:42 am

My reply to the guy at the beginning who said he worked with blackwater after Katrina and his orders was to shoot on site is bull I too was there 2 days after with 3 friends are mission was to secure the river boat neworlands bell casino we also encounter looters that tried to get on the boat needless to say they failed but we didn’t have to shoot anyone that brings me to the point. People like the guy from blackwater did nothing but make things worse for peolpe that were there to protect life and property.This brings me to another problem I had with a few gangbanger that beat my 14 year old son up so bad he was put in the hospital. They tried to get at him again a few months later this time i was home when it happened my son called me from school and said Dad thier was five gangbangers get reading to beat him again the same one as before I show up just as one of them was geting reading to hit my son I was able to get in between them to take the punch after that I was able to back them up enough to see what was going on well they picked up a club (THAT THEY PUT THERE INCASE THEY NEED IT ) well they started to beat me with the club and again i was able to back them up they seen that my gun had been put into veiw when my shirt was pulled up they seen it and freaked I handed the gun to my wife she put it into the truck an locked it by this time the sucurity guards came.I am sorry to make a long story short it coast me 70 thousand dollars to get my life back

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Edward P
February 6, 2011 at 6:14 pm

Excellent article and response. However… I have developed a certain strong bias which makes me wince every time I read about the dilemna between surviving in place in an urban setting or bugging out to a safer rural setting: I personally have concluded that living in modern big city in the 21st Century is bad idea – period. On balance, there’ much more “craziness” – substance-abusing & homeless people, people who’d mug &/or kill you for your nice jacket or shoes, or car-jack you (even with your infant child still in the car), welfare-dependent people who are unable or unwilling to lift a finger for themselves, and on and on. The supposed benefits of urban life (well-paying jobs, nice restaurants), are far-outweighed by the ever-increasing dangers and downsides of big cities. And with our current anti-business/anti-American administration and congress calling the shots these days, those well-paying jobs will become ever scarcer, nicer restauarants will continue to go out of business as fewer people can afford them, and the ratio of self-supporting, law-abiding and moral people to the other combined elements of big city life will continue to shift toward the latter. In short, the reasons to move permanently to a rural, small town, or “off-the grid”, or self-supporting setting, are more & more outnumbering the reasons to stay in the big city… in my opinion. And, as the politicians fiddle, while the country’s economy and international standing “burns”, the chances of the SHTF keep getting ever more likely. So…. for those who have the ability (which of course is diminishing, as the home selling market keeps diving), to move from the big city to a less-populated area…. I would make that move in a hearbeat… while you still can! Just my opinion.
– Ed P
Bath Maine

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 6, 2011 at 7:18 pm

The crux of your argument is your statement “WHILE you still can.”

What you may not fully appreciate is that the real statement is “IF you can.”

Some people need to be close to a VA center, dialisis, or have other medical needs.

Others have specialized jobs that only exist in urban areas.

Others have lived in the same neighborhood for decades and are a part of the community. They’d be starting from ZERO if they moved to a rural area. No friends, no network, and the probability that they’d be the “new guy” for the next 10-15 years.

Others got caught in the real estate ripsaw and can’t afford to leave.

Others have relatives who they love who won’t move.

Others are making the strategic gamble that the breakdown won’t happen for another 12, 24, 36, etc. months. and they’ll use that time to make/save money, finish their education, or let their kids finish their education.

Others just plain don’t want to run away. Cities have all sorts of problems in a civil breakdown situation, but so do rural areas. There isn’t going to be anyplace that’s a rose garden and it becomes a matter of deciding where you want to ride things out and who you want to ride things out with.

In short, there’s no simple answer to this question. I appreciate your comment and the life decisions that you’ve made, but they just don’t apply to everyone.

Reply

+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Edward P
February 9, 2011 at 7:59 pm

I appreciate your feedback. All very good points. I guess my perspective is evidence that I have become more than just a little bit of a ‘loner’ and disconnected from people. True, & I guess sad.. And without getting too personal/TMI, I concede the validity and significance of the points you bring up. For people who still have real connections to other people – friends, family nearby, etc., or healthcare services that they depend on, they obviously cannot just up and move.
Since I, for various reasons, now find myself disconnected and/or geographically distant from friend and family (wasn’t the plan, but that’s what happened), it no longer bothers me to consider moving way out to the sticks. But at the same time, every scenario I run through my head has serious faults. Living out in the sticks/up on a mountain will get you away from the majority of the crazies and desperados, but all it takes is one or two cunning but ruthless people, skilled in outdoor survival, to eventually find your hideout, stake you out, and make you their next unsuspecting victim. There’s something to be said for safety in a community of people who bond together for mutual defense. If you have a good number of neighbors of goodwill, enough of them could be convinced to at pool their self-defense efforts (though maybe not all their other resources) for the common good. On the other hand, once your canned goods/etc run out, where and how will you plant crops to live on, and where would you find wild game to hunt for food, in an urban environment?
In a real SHTF or EOTWAWKI situation, how long will people maintain good neighbor relations when their food/fuel supplies are a day or a week from total depletion, &/or they have sick loved ones who need medicine or other help which is not available? And at what point will people start deciding that that kind of life of uncertainty and constant danger just isn’t worth living anymore? Or decide to say the heck with being nice & moral, if their survival is hanging by a thread? If “civilization” deteriorates to that point, where a large # of the populace are desperate enough to do anything to stay alive, will it be worth the effort it will take to survive, and go on living in such a world? Have you read the book “The Road”?
If you haven’t, don’t. It paints a too-grim picture of a post-apocalyptic world, where honor and self-sacrifice and charity have all but vanished. Not a world worth working hard to “survive” in. At least the book “One Second After” paints a somewhat more optimistic picture, of a world where at least some people find a way to come together in community for the common good, and help each other get through the EOTWAWKI. I suppose it would be like being a pioneer back in the days when the threats from Nature, from roaming bandits,, and unfriendly Natives, were a possibility any and every day, and one just had to have a plan to survive each and every one of those possibilities.
Thanks for your advice & moderating this forum.
Ed

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Marc
February 7, 2011 at 6:40 am

When I made the decision to purchase guns as part of my preparation plans, I also decided to find and get training on how to use them. I found Front Sight to be more than helpful in this area as they cover all the aspects of firearm usage. If not Front Sight, I would encourage all to find comprehensive training in this area.

Marc J.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Dan
February 7, 2011 at 8:40 am

I mean no disrespect when I say this, but this has helped me cope with my “faith”, or lack of it. For me praying is what you do after you’ve done all you can do. Your faith is not a rational replacement for preparedness, it’s supposed to be in addition to it.

In so far as bugging out allow me to share a little of my experience. As I live in southern california I figured one of the biggest threats was fire. So what I did was had a few bug out bags in other locations, friend’s houses, ect. in case my apartment caught fire while I was at work/school. As a regular habit I made a few inspections of those provisions and let me say that I was more than a little dissapointed that they were not in the same condition as when I left them. So I guess what I’m saying is, unless you know for sure, those things might not be there. Make rotational maintainance inspections part of your planning.

Since then I’ve found that empty 5-gallon paint buckets make great cache containers. They’re waterproof, and make for great urban, (or rural for that matter rural) camoflage in that whoose going to look in or steal an ancient bucket of old paint?

Justin Case

Reply

+2 Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 7, 2011 at 11:56 am

**Quick note…I get a little theological in this reply, so if you don’t want to read that kind of stuff, skip it.**

Hey Dan,

I just don’t think that preparedness and faith are mutually exclusive. Is it possible that God answers prayers before we pray them?

In other words, is it possible that our inner urge to prepare is from God in response to prayers that we will pray after a disaster? (just a question…not doctrine or some deep thought)

Is it possible that God has given us an urge to prepare so that we can provide the answers to our neighbors’ prayers after a disaster? I’m DEFINITELY not saying this to make myself seem more important in my own eyes than I am, but I think it’s worth mulling over. Maybe my 2 years of food for my family isn’t for us, but it’s so that I’ll have the ability to help friends and loved ones survive during a 6-12 month breakdown in the supply chain. God may let me think my 2 years of food is for us, but gently (or not so gently) tap me on the shoulder after a disaster and inspire me to be more generous than I currently think I would be.

Or, maybe God knows that when a disaster happens that my family will be one of the first ones to die…and whoever scavanges food from our house will also find dozens of Bibles and books on Christian living. Not to say you have to be a Christian to be a prepper or welcome on this site…it just happens that I am.

And, another view is something that a pastor shared with me several years ago when I expressed my frustration that I WANTED to be a missionary in some 3rd world country but I was good at running businesses. The fact is that God chooses some people to go (be missionaries) and some to send (donate money and support missionaries.) If everyone was a “sender” then there would be no missionaries. If everyone would be a missionary, then there wouldn’t be any money to support them.

Extrapolating on that thought, I’m very thankful that there are people who have so much faith that they don’t think that they need to prepare for coming disasters. I’m not talking about people who choose to stick their heads in the sand…I mean people who see what’s coming and just fully believe that God will provide for their every need in every circumstance with miracles and manna from heaven. I don’t agree with them, and I think that we are also called to be responsible, but I appreciate their faith.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Arthur
February 7, 2011 at 1:21 pm

Thank you, David Morris, That is the David that; I & others have been waiting to hear from !!! I Thank God, for people like you & Glenn Beck ! That help people, to
understand what is going on & what we need to do, to prepare as well as we can ! May God Bless you and your Family !!

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Dan
February 8, 2011 at 9:43 am

Sir,
I mean no disrespect to you, or your beliefs, or anyone’s beliefs. I bought your program & consider it essential reguardless of one’s political or religious persuasion. To me it wouldn’t matter what the belief system was of the the person who was giving me CPR.
One of the statements that is pervasive here on campus is, “If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail.” To me that applies to more than just one’s educational plan.
Personally, at this point, I’m non-partisan & agnostic. I don’t particularly believe that “the truth will set you free” either. I’m also not going to try to convince you or anyone else that my views are “right”. They might not be for you.
You would’ve made a great missionary. Your neighboor’s benefit from your presence. If you still feel some sort of calling, you might consider The Peace Corps or something. Your skill sets would be invaluable to them.
Thanks, I’ve got to go,
Dan

Reply

+2 Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
February 8, 2011 at 10:29 am

Thanks, Dan…I couldn’t figure out anything in your comment that I could even interpret as disrespectful :)

As to the Peace Corps…the point of that paragraph and anecdote is that different people have different roles. I get a lot of satisfaction out of being a “sender.” I still have done short term mission projects and volunteer a lot locally, but I know that I don’t have to be a full time missionary…I can support full time missionaries who probably do a better job than I would.

As to the tie in with that & preparedness vs. faith, neither one is absolutely correct, and it takes both to have good balance.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Patrick
February 8, 2011 at 11:17 am

I have a hard time believing that an instructor would recommend emptying your weapon at a life threatening attacker. Our laws demand cease fire at loss of threat not death of attacker or attackers. Excessive force NOT to be tolerated!
Katrina is a prime example of non-preparedness! The Mayor was almost totally out of his element. He sometimes acted on bad advice and made decisions based on politically motivated urgency. BW/PSA were given specific instructions. These included STK in defense posture NOT shoot on sight!
Now, our town has 2 refineries within 25 miles and a nuclear energy plant within 35 miles. Thru traffic only in case of dire emergency. Fuel to be dispensed 5 gallon maximum. ALL side streets blocked, posted no access-restricted area and guarded. OP, LP and HP-SP’s to be out of view! This in our case is a small part of overall preparedness.
God is in control and we are his vehicles!!!
If you have property, relatives or confirmed friends willing to take you in then access will be granted on a limited basis.

Reply

Vote -1 Vote +1Don C
February 8, 2011 at 8:40 pm

In case of emergency, some governments around the country are set up to provide some useful information (as long as the grid is still up). http://www.nixle.com is a service that many police, public works, schools and other departments subscribe to to get alerts out to citizens. For the citizens, it is free to sign up and get whatever level of information you want, from emergency alerts only to traffic and community news. You can set up multiple locations that you want information from. Fr instance, in addition to my own city, I have my Mom’s city as a location. The alerts can come by cell phone texts and/or emails.

Reply

Leave a Comment

{ 1 trackback }

Previous post:

Next post: