{ 69 comments… read them below or add one }

Vote -1 Vote +1MP
August 25, 2010 at 11:22 am

Well this might be kind of crazy, but if I was going to sacrifice fuel, I think I would’ve put some sugar in the stuff to disable their vehicle so they would be on foot, it may give the group the edge as far as overpowering them, leaving them exposed, compared to the colonists’ defensive position.

Another way may have been to have several of the people take positions around the area with the possibility of flanking the three thugs “only three!” who didnt really appear to be “heavily armed”. Hell, someone couldve been in a position to snatch the one fat guy that came to get the food and do a reverse hostage situation. Then, if anything, after they exchanged the goods for the girl, the people who were set up couldve attacked them in force, rocks into the trucks windows, hell, one small molotov wouldve taken care of that situation real fast.

At that point I’m sure the 3 guys wouldve driven into the canal to put out the fire, then thats when you get em. If they got that truck, they wouldve probably had extra fuel, and if they could recover the truck intact, even have a means of escape if necessary. In such a situation, sometimes you have to think outside of the box, if that means setting up traps to catch goons or setting someone on fire to gain the upper hand, then so be it – survival of the fittest.

The statements about security couldnt be any more important especially in an urban setting where someone could sneak up on you real easily. I would’ve been trying to set up booby traps and barricades and barricading the house thoroughly to keep anyone from getting in. Now, with the almost unlimited power, I think I would be trying to locate a couple of transformers (maybe the ignition coil off of one of the cars) to set up a fence charger setup to zap the piss out of anyone willing enough to cross that point, even if they just put wire across the doors and windows to keep people from trying to push into the house, if they couldnt scrounge up enough wire to actually set up a perimeter fence.

We can only see what they’re going to do as time progresses.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Keith_Indy
August 25, 2010 at 11:47 am

I wouldn’t bother with sugar in the gas. How about water?

I haven’t watched the episode yet, but what did they do to “test” the gasoline when it was picked up? Smell it? All they would have know was that it smelled like gas. That’s what they were looking for.

And since it was a nibble, the colonists wouldn’t have been out as much.

Since they know that nothing “real” bad is going to happen to them, they aren’t taking this as seriously as if it were real life. Real life, that girl would’ve been repeatedly raped, and then ransomed, or just out right killed.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Randy
August 25, 2010 at 11:28 am

They still have not learned that security is one of the keys to surviving. Now, since they did achieve a means of securing their area, they risk losing everything. They are easy targets.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Al
August 25, 2010 at 11:32 am

They have sugar. They should have at least put sugar in the gas that they gave up. A few of them should now pose as sick people and whenever they are outside be sure to fake vomit in plain view of any onlookers, they should cough a lot and look sickly.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Randy
August 25, 2010 at 11:43 am

Sugar does not dissolve in Gas. It would have been better to put water in the gas, and a couple of cap fulls of gas in the water. Then neither would be useful

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Vote -1 Vote +1Vera K Walls
August 25, 2010 at 11:47 am

David, I always appreciate the abundance of information you give us in your lessons. Thank you very much. V. K. Walls

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Vote -1 Vote +1andrea
August 25, 2010 at 12:20 pm

The kidnapped girl should never have been alone. it also seems to me that the wide open area they are trying to defend is indefensible. Since they have power, maybe an electric fence, somekind of warning device, an area which is barricaded somehow , where they can keep their equipment, work, etc., but be out of sight from prying eyes. These bad guys seem to know too much about what the Colony is doing! I am not sure, but do they have any senrtries on duty,day and night? Have they hidden most of their supplies? I thought they talked of it, but they took the medical supplies from the shelf, I believe. It’s easier to see the mistakes when your watching and not participating!

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Vote -1 Vote +1Rob
August 25, 2010 at 4:38 pm

I’ve seen a male in a boonie hat in several episodes that appears to be watching the colony through binoculars or night vision gear. The producer of the show is having this person cut in on purpose, so it makes me wonder if he is a “Government” type observer or a bad guy spy.

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Vote -1 Vote +1ED JEROME
August 25, 2010 at 6:04 pm

They are not getting any points for keeping the bad guys out… I agree with some of the others…If they hope to survive they have to work on the doors an windows an have some kind of alarm system…. And also the guts to really take out a bad guy…
the folks seem” kind” an do not want to HURT the bad guys…. this will be bad news for any survival …. You have to make the bad guys HURT to prove you mean business…. so far I have not seen this action ….Ed

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Vote -1 Vote +1Ray
August 25, 2010 at 12:36 pm

As the first 2 people (and David) commented, extreme measures could have been employed to change the outcome and this is why I can’t get “into” this scenario – it isn’t realistic. In an early episode, the first big group that raided the colonists would probably have been heavily armed and wiped them out. They should at least give everyone paint ball guns and a financial incentive ($1000) for surviving and not getting hit (or any kind of incentive where they would use the paint ball gun as a last resort). In the kidnap episode, the girl would probably have been ravaged before she was returned.

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Vote -1 Vote +1john
August 25, 2010 at 12:54 pm

ray has a good point give them paint ball guns and let them try it and make it as realistic as possible and in the first person mp think outside the box and either disable their transpertation with sugar in the truck or other vehicle when it comes to surviving and protecting your family u better think outside the box or you and your family are dead

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+1 Vote -1 Vote +1Travaler
August 25, 2010 at 12:59 pm

I haven’t watched this show but what I’ve read here it would appear p me that the colonist are still thinking as “victims” rather then reestablishing a new start. Maybe they’re still thinking that the Calvary will ride to their rescue. If they were going to give up some of their gas then they should have used maybe ¾ of a gal and made the rest up with water, looks like gas, smells like gas, would burn (open flame) like gas but wouldn’t be very useful for fuel in a vehicle. Part of the problem is the colonist haven’t learned that they need to make their “retreat” secure. Never, never, never give up or quit as soon as you do you’ve given the “other” guy all the advantage they need to control the situation.
Next they need to divide their supplies (all of them) into many smaller groups a hide those in separate places. Maybe build up fake supplies in sight so if they have to give some give up that’s what they give them. Why do the “other” people know so much about the colonist but the colonist, know virtually nothing about them? Have they not run recon on the surrounding area, not sentries, no plan of how to repel attackers, no counter attack plan, no safe place for those unable to fight, no layered defense? You can’t survive with water, food and shelter AND you can’t survive if others take those things away from you!

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Vote -1 Vote +1Robert
August 25, 2010 at 2:00 pm

I constantly tell my wife that if someone tries to abduct her or take her to a remote area, she should fight to her death; in this case, the thugs intent is no longer robbery only. With that being said, Becka is prob under 115lbs and going up against 3 men over 220lbs… I don’t care how much TFT she has, no female will win against those odds! She could have tried to gouge the attackers eyes, but in a real-life scenario, they would have pounded her as well.. The best situation would be for her to be in condition yellow and avoid that situation all together.

I always appreciated my Jiu-jitsu instructor being honest with us in class and telling women to cause damage, run and never gave false hope that they could take on 3 stronger, bigger and more evil men.

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Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
August 25, 2010 at 2:07 pm

Hey Robert,

You’re absolutely correct that she should have remained in condition yellow, but you’re comment about no female being able to win against the odds Becka had is incorrect and irresponsible. False dogma like this must be stomped immediately with as much force as possible.

To begin with, anyone who believes what you said is almost guaranteed to lose. A mindset that expects defeat will find it nearly 100% of the time. So, if you’ve got a 115 pound woman with no fight and no skills against 3 attackers, you’re right. But if you’ve got a 115 pound woman with a will to live, the intent to do whatever is necessary to be victorious, and training like what TFT teaches, then she DOES have a good chance.

Second, Becka had 1-2 seconds where she had only one attacker. She had enough time to go for eyes, groin or other targets. From there, it’s a matter of using the concept of slicing the pie…only in this case it’s with physical attackers. This is a very straight forward tactic to use with multiple attackers that is beyond my ability to describe in writing, but a fundamental part of Target Focus Training and quite straight forward to learn.

Next, there’s a parallel between a small woman facing untrained attackers and a soldier who’s tired, hungry, injured, sick, thirsty, and loaded down with gear facing multiple TRAINED killers. If your training depends on superior strength, speed, size, or expertise (like with Jiu-jitsu) then you’re always going to find situations where you don’t match up to your opponent(s). But if your training depends on applying all of your bodyweight through as small of a point as possible to the weakest points on your opponents’ bodies (like with Target Focus Training) then the playing field gets leveled considerably.

And finally, I want to lovingly ask you to never tell your wife to “fight to her death” again. Why would you plant and fertalize an image in her head of dying as she’s fighting off attackers? Since you mentioned condition yellow, I am assuming that you understand the importance of your mind in a fight. Instead, plant images in her head of conquering violent attackers…and not just generally conquering attackers, but the specific techniques that she will use and the responses that she’ll get when she uses them. If you’re going to fight to anyone’s death, make it her attackers…but there wouldn’t be very many situations where she would need to go beyond non-functional to terminal.

I suppose I should apologize for being so rough on you for your post. I do appreciate you taking the time to comment, and it is a VERY important topic to talk about. Mindset is critical to survival…in physical violence, wilderness survival, and in breakdowns in civil order. It’s important to manage and cultivate the mindset of a winner and not the mindset of a victim.

God Bless,

David

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Vote -1 Vote +1Deanna
August 29, 2010 at 4:18 pm

Thank You David!!

As a small woman who knows what would happen, I would so fight to my death rather than be taken. Too many women (and men) think that size and strength matter. I believe that your mind set (and knowledge) are the keys that can successfully get you through any situation.

As I womam I appreciate that you as a man appreciates that too.

Deanna

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Vote -1 Vote +1carl inWis
September 17, 2010 at 12:05 am

Right on, David! My CCT gives any small person the advantage since an unexpected sharp thrust under the chin throws even a big guy off balance long enough to let U disable him or flee.
Yes – an psychologist will tell you a positive mindset is neccesary for success.

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Vote -1 Vote +1John V
August 25, 2010 at 2:06 pm

First let me say, that aparently no one noticed that the kidnappers WERE armed (watch the episode again and look at the right hand of the guy inspecting the gas can). Secondly, never give up sugar, it can be used to treat wounds (as we are told here, thanks David) also it is in short supply as they had to resort to self-rationing. Third, these people never think tactical. Fourth, the kidnappers can only get rewarded as long as the hostage has a percieved value. Hate to be the cold blooded one here, but it wasnt a family member or even a close friend, emotional value is cloes to nil. Remember this is just TV and they will all go home safe, and in the event of any health problem, the producers will intervene. Sugar in the gas tank? Not sure the effect you desire would happen, and certainly not instantly. What if it wasnt for their truck? they were just going to take it back to camp. Conversely, as the kidnapper would you really be able to trust the goods you recieved hadnt been tampered with?
Just a few thoughts

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Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
August 25, 2010 at 3:05 pm

Right on, John. If I remember right, two of them also had either bear spray or a 9/16/24 oz pepper spray. That lets them start engaging when the Colonists are 30 or so feet away.

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Vote -1 Vote +1John V
August 25, 2010 at 7:56 pm

Pepper spray gave them an advantage (considering the trauma endured after the enmasse attack when they had once felt the physical impact of spray) but only if “they” are propperly trained and the colonists arent. Example if someone does have pepper spray or bear spray and you have a chance to get the wind at your back, the user loses the will to deploy the spray, knowing they will also suffer the effect. My wife prefers I do not watch this show, because I tend to get a little worked up at the mistakes, and some of the poor advice given by their so called “experts”….lol. Thanks for the great site and for helping so many by pointing them in the right direction for Great information on all aspects of surviving. Remember this: If you are in a fair fight, your tactics stink….and lastly if you are going to fight, WIN!
Thanks for this site

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Vote -1 Vote +1Paul K.
August 30, 2010 at 8:24 pm

Amen Brother, The only fair fight is the one you win.If you’re thinking about losing,you’ve already lost.

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Vote -1 Vote +1John V
August 25, 2010 at 2:13 pm

May I add the thought that if these colonists were from the area they are actually in, how many actual firearms do you think they would have? # attackers and 1 woman (armed such as my wife is, concealed permit and all) and the situation changes dramatically. But this is a TV show, and hollywood does have a good record showing firearms in a good light.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Brad
August 25, 2010 at 2:15 pm

I dont care for the reality shows and espescialy ones like this. There isnt a reality to it. I admit my exposure to these shows has been limited as we dont have national tv/satellite/cable etc. We do collect DVD’s of shows we are interested in/old series etc. When we’re visiting friends and family we see some of these shows and a little dab will do you is right. About 5 minutes is all I can take. I felt obligated to respond to some of the suggestions/comments.

-Water would have been a good additive for the gas and almost undetectable without the right equipment/gear.
-Putting your enemy afoot or eliminating their fleet vehicles is a really good idea. As I didnt see this show/episode and probably never will I can only respond from what I know from the schoool of “hardknocks”.
-If someone is trying to kidnap/abduct/assault you then you must do everything in your power to hurt/disable/kill that person(s). Nothing is off limits or “unfair”. Keys/key fobs make an excellent last ditch/chance weapon. Eyes are a very good target for such weapons/objects. A good “realistc” self defense course should be taken by everyone. Good luck all…..

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Vote -1 Vote +1kevin
August 25, 2010 at 2:30 pm

being where they are with no kind of law enforcement you have to take care of your own you CANNOT allow someone to just come in and recon where you are you have to not give away how many of you there what you have what kind of defences you have YOU CANT GIVE AWAY ANYTHING and if they come in looking to take what you have you MUST take them out yes i know this ia realaty show but the truth of the matter is its survival of the fittest and that means KILLING YOUR ENEMYS

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Vote -1 Vote +1Robert
August 25, 2010 at 2:44 pm

Mr. David,

No offense taken.. I appreciate your website and your emails. I’m new to the survival mindset and it all began with the direction I saw our country was taking. I save most of your emails and plan on purchasing Tim Larkin’s DVD when i can afford them, but i respectfully disagree with you that I am being irresponsible.

I agree completely with you that Becka had a chance against the first attacker, but like I said she was in condition white and never expected him, so she fell to the ground. Had she been in condition yellow, she could have foreseen the assailant and attacked a small point and RAN. But once she was on the ground and surrounded by 660lbs of strength, I just don’t believe a 115lb weakened woman has a chance. I am not saying she shouldn’t try – there’s always a chance of poking the eye of a shark when your in his mouth – but it is a low probability.

Telling my wife to fight to her death is more a way to emphasize to never stop fighting; I never really thought of it as planting a thought that she is going to die. After telling her that, I usually follow by saying that by 80% of gunshot victims survive or how attackers want easy prey.. But I will discuss that with her to make sure that those are not my intentions.

Thank you for your reply and thank you for the service you provide.

God Bless you too brother..

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Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
August 25, 2010 at 2:55 pm

Robert,

I’m not saying that YOU are irresponsible…just that saying that women can’t fight off multiple attackers are being irresponsible. That being said, it’s also irresponsible to try to convice people that they have a 100% chance of winning against multiple attackers in a violent encounter. This isn’t a black and white area…but the best way to stack the deck in your favor is to start with a solid, positive mindset and back it up with effective skills and tactics. A positive mindset and no skills or tactics doesn’t do a lot of good…just like solid skills and tactics with an expectation of losing doesn’t do any good either.

And you’re completely right on condition white vs. condition yellow. For those of you who aren’t familiar with the Cooper color codes, condition white is where you are basically unaware of any threats or possible threats in your vicinity. Condition yellow is where you are constantly aware of your surroundings. This awareness ends up making you aware of risks and dangers as well as helping you see opportunities and just plain “neat” things around you.

Thanks again for taking the time to comment.

David

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Vote -1 Vote +1Daryl
August 25, 2010 at 5:04 pm

Hi, David,
This was an excellent example of sharing info. I’ve been around probably a lot longer than most of your students and am amazed at the insights I’m picking up from all these good folks. I was (fortunate?) to have been attacked, and knifed by a group of gangbangers when I was very young, so I’ve pretty much always been aware of my surroundings since. Robert is a sharp guy, and all I can say is that he, and his sweet wife are the very folks who will benefit most from TFT. He is aware, open minded, and obviously, willing to learn. Couldn’t ask for a better student. Thanks to all the Preppers who responded. Great stuff!

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Vote -1 Vote +1zb
August 25, 2010 at 8:14 pm

I was dismayed the colony could not think of anything but following outsider’s orders. They need to learn to think for themselves – is it not THEIR survival?

They should have recon’d their perimeter, set high watch points, make funneled low points, and setup warning bells, worked out encoded (e.g. morse code) beats, and established watch and fighting protocols. That they knew and disobeyed working in pairs only amplifies that their food and tools are as good as long as they are alive. In a survival situation, others will try to take all those away from you, so defense is absolutely necessary.

Now that they have a power generator, they will attract more intruders that will run freely around their compound, taking anything and anyone they want. In addition to securing their perimeter, they should set traps around their precious open target on the sides and inside of the building and activate them when asleep. Since they can now run their power tools, they can create any number of sharpened metal melee weapons and work their way to mechanical short and long range projectiles. If they have any chemistry knowledge, they can make things go boom if they knew their plants and extract the constituents – bonus if they find pre-fab’d bottles.

As for hindsight, they could have set a trap and triggered it after they had Becka. There were only 3 intruders and 8? colonists. They missed a great opportunity to ambush them and get some extra gear in the process.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Kelly
August 26, 2010 at 7:08 am

What’s interesting to me is the lack of animals in this area. In the ravaged areas I’ve been in, state-side, stray/lost dogs are everywhere. What better advanced warning system than a dog….any size will do…we just want an alert. While it’d be great to have an advanced trained K9, a couple of average dogs set up within a fenced perimeter around the house, and in it, would be the group’s eyes and ears. Especially since this bunch seems to still be sleeping at night all at the same time! Adding dogs would mean having to feed them, but that’s a trade off I’d take.

I agree with the post that the group knows this is a TV show and that’s why they haven’t made security a priority. with that windmill and no security they might as well have sent out invitations to come and get it.

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Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
August 26, 2010 at 10:26 am

I THINK that they determined that eating cats and dogs, having themget hurt guarding the colonists, or attacking the colonists like ferral pack dogs would wouldn’t be acceptable for TV.

On that note, when they killed the snake in the first episode, they didn’t eat it either. I’m not sure if that restriction was imposed on them by the producers, or if they just hadn’t accepted the reality of their situation yet.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Deanna
August 29, 2010 at 4:30 pm

Kelly,

I so agree with you about them ALL sleeping at the same time!!! And yes, the windmill is an open invitation. Couldn’t they have put it on the ground?

Since the 1st episode, I have been wondering and yelling at the TV for them to hide the food in a few areas. That’s why the intruders got so much. It was set out lik a grocery store.

And why are all of there tools and fire pit out side? I know it’s hot and humid in louisianna, but protect your stuff!!

Deanna

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Vote -1 Vote +1DEE
August 26, 2010 at 8:58 am

I don’t understand why they are so determined on electricty and not concentrating
on security and food. How many times have they gone hunting or fishing and come up with nothing? Why didn’t they use some of the pig biproducts to use as bait for fishing or hunting? With all of their skills they could of constructed traps. Food seems to be secondary, but all they talk about is the depleting stock they have/had. I think a drop net in a baited area would work much better than a net you’re dragging while the critters are fleeing ahead of would be more effective.

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Vote -1 Vote +1RichStillinWyo
August 26, 2010 at 2:27 pm

Dee and all
**** my comments
I don’t understand why they are so determined on electricty and not concentrating
on security and food.
**** even though they all know this is a ‘game” they are trapped in that river in Egypt, you know the one – De Nile :} the want things to be ‘normal’ whatever the heck THAT is [even today] there is also the issue of what the producers have assigned them to do….

How many times have they gone hunting or fishing and come up with nothing?
****I don’t know. How many times do people go out today and don’t bag anything? Remember that this is a cross section of the general public, I bet that a random group of people on this list would start out with a 70% “better” succes rate just because of mind set.

Why didn’t they use some of the pig biproducts to use as bait for fishing or hunting?
**** I am sure that the ICK factor along with the “De Nile” factor has a lot to do with that.

With all of their skills they could of constructed traps.
***Yes they should have been able to, and should have done so.

Food seems to be secondary, but all they talk about is the depleting stock they have/had.
**** MOST Americans do not know where food comes from other than the SuperMarket in cans and plastic wrap. So many folks today do not even know how to cook raw food from plastic wrap.

I think a drop net in a baited area would work much better than a net you’re dragging while the critters are fleeing ahead of would be more effective.
**** I would agree!

**** 90.3 % of surviving is MENTAL. [and 82.35% of ALL stats are pulled out of my rearend :} ] I have seen people die with injuries that they ‘should have’ lived with and others who fought and survived injuries that ‘should have’ killed them.

*** I like how the show sparks conversation, both here and with folks in general. I have found it easier to break the ice as it were by discussing the show. I have [and normally do] enjoy reading everyine’s comments.

Rich

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Vote -1 Vote +1Gina
August 26, 2010 at 9:40 am

Chivalry will get you killed. She was ‘hungry’ and wandered off? Which meant she was taking responsibility for the consequences, right. Then she became persona non grata once she was caught. Period. You never sacrifice the group for the one.

She has no fighting skills (think TFT) and seriously lacking common sense.

The few times I watched this ‘make believe everybody is not out to hurt you’ nonsense, it amazes me that people are really taking this seriously.

I’m a woman and I wouldn’t have voted to save her sorry butt.

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Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
August 26, 2010 at 10:19 am

I have to say that I’m with you on this one, Gina. They aren’t a big group of friends who have decided in advance that they have common goals and agree to try to share a common destiny. They’re strangers forced together.

Think about a random group of 10-15 people that you *kind of* know…If you got stuck with them in a survival situation, how likely is it that one or more of them would freak out? With a random group that big, it’s incredibly likely that one or more would NEED medication, be anti-social, or just plain break down into a slobbering heap from the stress.

What do you do with them at that point? Banish them? Develop an economy where you have to work to *buy* food and water? Tough questions during normal times and VERY tough questions during a survival situation.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Deanna
August 29, 2010 at 4:38 pm

Gina,

As a woman, I also totally agree with you. NEVER sacrafice the one for the many. They agreed if asked for more, they wouldn’t give it, then they pretty much left Reno on his own to make the decisions. Well, he likes her so his decision was personal, not ethical.

I think as women, we could let another woman go. But for men its harder because they are always taught to take care of us.

We don’t need to be taken care of!!! And women need to learn that as well as men.

Deanna

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Vote -1 Vote +1Marcia
August 26, 2010 at 2:13 pm

I like the show in general and look forward to it every week. For those of us that are not as far along as some of you are, I have learned so many great new facts. I think as you already realize, this is a show and I am betting “rules” of show have been explained in detail. This season the colonists have been “atttacked” much more often and aggresively than last season and are really having a difficult time securing food. I enjoy some of the other survial shows as well as I have learned so many new things. It is a lot easier to watch and find fault with what they are doing if you are already an experienced survivalist but if you are suddenly cast into this scenario, you are going to make lots of mistakes. I think this is the purpose of these kinds of shows….to teach you what and what not to do. Thanks David and all for all the input. I am a sponge just soaking it all up. Keep it coming!

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Vote -1 Vote +1Deanna
August 29, 2010 at 4:41 pm

I too watch shows like Dual Survival, Man, Woman Wilderness and Bear Grylls and Les Stroud.

All of these shows teach me something that I did not know , or how to do something I do know in a different way.

I will learn as much as I can to be sure that I can take care of my family, no matter what the situation.

Deanna

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Vote -1 Vote +1eric
August 26, 2010 at 3:59 pm

Just a small comment, I noticed that the kid-nappers pulled up their truck streight through a large grass feild on the side of the creek. Now i’m not an expert at tracking but I wonder if the colonists could possibly trace the tire tracks left by the crushed weeds back to the attackers hide out (on a side bar how long would such tracks last?) and launch a recon/counter-raid?

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Vote -1 Vote +1John T
August 26, 2010 at 5:08 pm

The show is realy just a fantasy anyway.

The simple fact that the colonists and the attackers/scavangers can not cause harm to each other pushes the show too far from reality to be anything more than entertainment.

I believe it was the second show when they were attacked in mass,, In the true asspect of such a melay,,there would have been alot of blood shed.

Too scripted to be of any real use, beyond the drama of strangers working together.
Instead of attaching an alternator to the PTO of a tractor,,Why didn’t they just use the generator on the tractor?,,and spend the time foraging?

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Vote -1 Vote +1Steven B
August 26, 2010 at 5:52 pm

And the fact that no one has any “nasty” or “ugly” guns? You will learn nothing from this ridiculous show.

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Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
August 26, 2010 at 5:53 pm

Hey Steven,

I agree that a lack of firearms takes away from the reality, but whether or not you think you can learn anything from it depends on whether you think it might be important to understand psychology in a survival situation.

The show doesn’t have guns, but we have dozens of cities/societies that have experienced breakdowns in civil order over the last century and they ALL prove out that for every violent interaction, there are HUNDREDS of interactions that are vital to survival that aren’t violent.

Security, firearms, and other weapons and empty hands skills ARE vital, but you won’t be using these skills nearly as often as you will be dealing with interpersonal issues with friends, neutral parties, and defusing hostile situations.

David

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Vote -1 Vote +1Glenn
August 26, 2010 at 5:55 pm

Dear David,

Didnt know if you knew that the Colony is a setup show and totally bogus BS..the first series old mand and wife were ringers as was the doctor on site..whata a buncha of crap and good for ratings and what not to do.

Glenn

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Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
August 26, 2010 at 5:56 pm

I guess I’m confused…I don’t think anyone thinks it’s a documentary, do they?

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Vote -1 Vote +1Skeej
August 27, 2010 at 2:05 pm

Glenn- thanks for the irony, and with respect, I hope you will agree a certain amount of that CAN be entertaining, when leavened with useful credible information beyond the obvious.

I find The Colony to be a VERY useful example of wargaming- with lots of lessons learned to be gained, from past military lessons learned.

1. “the best plan is the one you are prepared to toss in the trash when the war begins” is true only if you have done the work up front.
Basic skills, get in shape, how to defend yourself, have a plan, etc

2. Mental flexibility- fastest to adapt to new info wins, ie the OODA loop, is a force multiplier.

3. Change the rules- military war-games have been played in past and I am sure are played today with known “deal-killers”, ie parts were “scripted” to pretend those did not exist- precisely to exercise the basic skills and mental flexibility.

Its the process of gaming it (and thats what The Colony is, an example we can discuss with enough relevance to matter),

including the creative disagreement here, on how to’s, that sets up the future A. “out-of-the-box” solution for the deal-killer,
or even,
B. changes paradigm, the re-write of the rules that invalidate the enemys doctrine and investment – think assymetrical warfare.

This is how small groups (think family unit?) prevail over much larger ones.

I’ll be interested to see how it plays out in The Colony, as it seems like they are getting close to learning lessons in step 1, and hopefully will get it on 2.

And, if any of you have opinions or ideas on 3 A and B.

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Vote -1 Vote +1MP
August 27, 2010 at 12:20 am

Everybody made a lot of good points, the whole sugar in the gas thing was mainly with the intent of disabling their vehicle where they wouldnt be able to come back, as I heard them claim upon leaving, truck would’ve probably died by the time they came back to their hideout.

As far as Becka, yeah she was cute and all, but I would’ve probably sacrificed her myself as I would’ve made it CLEAR that NO ONE, man or woman, go out alone and unarmed, even if its with a stick, hell with the die grinders they couldve made spears out of metal tubing (in a real life situation of course).

I definately agree with using the rotten pigs for bait, in LA bayous, they would’ve had a butt-load of catfish if they set up some trot lines using that stuff for bait. Even the maggots could’ve caught some sunfish.

Then again, with some metal pipes, a battery and an ignition coil, they could’ve fabricated what amounted to a gasoline fueled potato gun, shooting something more lethal than spuds (nails and glass, think big shotgun for clearing a group of goons). If in a situation where I was dropped into an area w/o all of the stuff I’m used to using (including guns), I would like to think that other people would be trying to fabricate as much as possible as fast as possible, whether its weapons, traps for food or 2 legged critters, firestarting tools, ad infinitum.

I wonder why the thought never crossed their mind to take that boat laying near their house and try to rig it up to sail the canal or even the bayou, if they could drag that plane back to their compound, hell, take that motor and prop and make an airboat, like I said, thinking outside of the box and being totally unorthodox will get you a lot farther than letting the limitations of an overly restrictive and defeatist society that is now dead (in the case of our make believe scenario) stop you from doing whatever it takes to live, and even live comfortably.

I do like the ideas about letting them have paintball guns, it would make things a lot more interesting, maybe even make the group think a little more, especially after a couple of them get petered by paintballs from the baddies, simulating real gunshot wounds, they would use a little more strategy when dealing with outsiders versus the intimate conversations they’ve been willing to have with everyone. Even prop melee weapons would help, rubber knives with red paint on them or something, special effects have all sorts of weapons for people to use that simulate real life.

Lets face it, in a real survival situation, it don’t matter how draconian the cities may be with their weapons laws, SOMEBODY is going to have guns, even if its a cheapo saturday night special or an airgun. I do like the show, but just like the last season, it was following the typical reality show format, which for all intents, was organized BS.

I just like watching it to see just what is done and what is thought up for these folks to do in such a situation. Hell, maybe next season a bunch of us survivalist types should audition, put ten of us out there, and let us help plan the show, and see how it turns out. If they want ratings, I’m sure we can give em some steenkin ratings. But seriously, other than trying to entertain people, the producers should possibly consider next season if they do a next season, to get input from actual survivalists, instead of “experts” who probably don’t even make this type of stuff a mindset, it would help make a better show that will be a lot more eduacational and send a better message to those who don’t really have the foggiest idea of what they would do to survive if something like this actually happened. Again, my 2 cents, I got plenty of pennies to spare….

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Vote -1 Vote +1David Morris
August 27, 2010 at 11:17 am

Good stuff, MP…my guess is that having survivalists on the show might rattle the sheep too much 🙂

You and several others have brought up great points about reality. If you try to view the show as a “how to” for survival, you’re going to get REALLY frustrated. What we do is record the show on our DVR, and as they make decisions, we pause the show and talk about what we’d do in the same situation. In other words, we use it as a starting point for conversations…not as the answer. I think that you’ll find that if you do the same thing, it’s pretty enjoyable and productive to watch the show…instead of frustrating.

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Vote -1 Vote +1MP
August 27, 2010 at 10:21 pm

Amen to all of that brother, gotta remember the PC aspects of all of this, but what you said is absolutely true and kind of like what we do as well, talking about the hypotheticals of the show’s situations, many times we go back to the same things or talk about the same hardware that could be used, which is still good, since if you continue to drill something into one’s head, they tend to remember a little better versus just a fleeting glance at any given topic or item. I find it a lot more interesting and educational communicating on this forum, helps me learn a lot more.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Deanna
August 29, 2010 at 4:47 pm

David,

That is exactly what my partner and I do. We each give ideas and then between the two of us come up with the best way that she and I together would attack the problem.

Deanna

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Vote -1 Vote +1eric
August 27, 2010 at 7:35 pm

Yes, a boat would be wonderful and a potato gun would be cool but to make those things requires them to have an dedicated purpose. Sure, you could use the boat as a transport or even better, as a barge for moving items up and down the river but for its limited uses, there are more pressing matters to be had( but IF the colonists finaly do gather enough sense to build a secure premitor and finaly get their food issues in order, then that boat idea will definitly open up a full tier of possibilities!).
As for the potatogun, why waste precious gasoline and even more precious time on somthing that could probly be done just as well with a brick( sure it wont LIKELY kill somebody but its cheap as heck and they got plenty o’ throwin’ stones lying about) or a spear( they made the machette…now can they make the spear, a weapon that in my opinion is better than a machette and can be used to fish). if they could get a good supply of gas then a pottato gun would be loads useful for now you can launch that brick or nail-wad several times farther than any thrown weapon, increasing the distince you can engage the target and being scary as heck to anybody who doesent have a counter to the potato gun ( A good counter to the potatogun? A car with some metal sheets welded on to it, suprise attack, and people rolling a metal plate on wheels similar to how those in the middle ages closed the distince to archers in castles can counter it.)

the idea for the fake props are good but then it raises the cheasey factor to see someone fall over pretending to die.

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Vote -1 Vote +1john
August 27, 2010 at 12:59 am

there are use of paint guns that look very realistic and shoot paint balls that look like real bullets and sting just as bad but need to be realistic training as can be with out it being the real thing because when it gets realistic you need to get back to instictive training and to think other wise is to set yourself up to be killed and then they will take all your gear and leave your corpse naked as the day you were born.

speaking of being prepaired its almost five years to the day that katrina came and destroyed new orliens and the crap really hit the fan after 3 days people were terrorizing eachother for what meger supplies were at hand after than time five years ago i change my own battle plan and deside to reform my group and change the objective from waiting for the govt to save us to us saving ourselfs and to hell with everyone else from blocking off our street to runnng a peremiter to keeping plenty of food water batteries to well maintain first aid and firearms and ammunition and runnng routine patroles to keep ing well stock flashlights and batteries and keeping everyone ontheir toes

the colony needs to step it up and get more realistic and the colonest need to pull their heads out of their collective buts and really get real because when the crap hits the fan all you have to depend on is your immediate family and real friends when are few and far between and i have enough to get us through hard times ahead

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Vote -1 Vote +1MP
August 27, 2010 at 10:38 pm

I did think of the paintball guns that were real close to the real thing, it wouldve made things a little more realistic in that sense. While the use of props and fake dying may look cheesy to some, no doubt, it would give the “stars” the incentive to really revert to a “kill or be killed” mentality where if they had to fight, they wouldn’t think twice to shoot someone or “cut” someone with a knife, also having the knowing that if someone did the same and they see the fake blood, they’re screwed.

I have also thought about how I would assist in blocking off our area in case of a real emergency, since we live in the country, it would actually be pretty easy, only a few roads that would have to be addressed, a couple of chainsaws to drop some trees across the roads and one road left open and heavily guarded, and with everyone’s cooperation, the only ones getting in would be on foot, and they shouldnt be too hard to deal with now right?

Waiting for gubmint to save you would be like waiting for the devil to save you after the rapture leaves you behind. If you want them to save you, make note of all refugee camps so you’ll know where to go.

True using gasoline to power a spud gun when the fuel is scare would be counter productive, but it wouldnt take much fuel to make a few big booms, and it would only be used as a last ditch weapon, mount it on a wheeled carriage like a cannon, turn it to the crowd and clear the street, almost sounds medieval don’t it? Might be better if they found some hairspray and a piezo grill/stove ignitor though, for those of you who’ve actually played with the spud gun idea before.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Calvin
August 27, 2010 at 3:54 pm

I would sure concentrate on additional security before I would do anything else. I wish they would put some tires on that tractor and drag one of those shipping containers next to the building they are staying in. Now that would be a true “castle keep”. They could store everything safely in that container including themselves at the first sign of danger! With that welder and some of the tires/wheels I have seen on previous episodes they could get it going pretty quick. Take some of that chain they bartered and rig a fail safe lock on the container. Just an idea.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Dave W
August 27, 2010 at 8:51 pm

Food,Water,Fire,Shelter,and Weapons. I’m the real world un like TV,I will be armed to the teeth.You try and come anywhere near my colony and that will be the last thing you ever do!
Never wander off alone.It’s just like being in the jungle,you must have someone watch your back.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Tom
August 27, 2010 at 11:05 pm

This may sound crazy but maybe the producers intend for the windmill to be the start of re-establishing commerce of some sort. After they have figured out how to secure their area, they could start re-charging batteries for the outsiders for a fee, such as canned goods or whatever. Just a thought.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Jonathan
September 1, 2010 at 9:27 am

I had the same idea Tom. Now that you have a resource that others might want/need you can use it to trade with. That boat trader will eventually be back, and when he does they can trade charging services for goods that they don’t seem to be able to get on their own.
Find another group that’s setup shop somewhere? Instead of stealing their stuff, tell them to bring dead car batteries and something to trade for it.
I really like the idea posted about moving those cargo containers around. Even if you can’t move them, they’re still the most easiliy secured real estate you can find.

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Vote -1 Vote +1jeremy
August 28, 2010 at 1:51 am

if i really felt obligated to save her from her own stupidity. i would put just enuf gas mixed in water to create a sheen & smell, fabricate what appears to be medical supplies. constantly observe drop point to make sure an outside party doesn’t take your bait/ransom. (they have plenty of people) set up an ambush, only 3 perps. from what i could tell at least 1 firearm, mace & a working truck maybe more..(getting the useless model back would be a bonus as well) thats enuf incentive for me to implament this type of plan, after all the entire situation happens in there teritory.
OR
given the fact that this is a sudo survival situation, they know no ones getting shot, entertain me & tell the abductors to F#@! off on the request for more. see what they”d do when the script gets thrown out.

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Vote -1 Vote +1MP
August 29, 2010 at 11:29 am

Exactly what I was saying too….

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Vote -1 Vote +1John V
August 28, 2010 at 9:59 am

ok, i just watch the replay of this episode, and came to a conclusion. what happened to “keep the girl” negoations? the colony complains she is the second laziest person in their compound. So I figure it goes like this….”keep the girl, we will split her rations…bring her back and we will ambush you!!!”. also, when speaking with her captors what happens if the colony keeps telling them “we havent tampered with the food or gas or med supplies in any way, the containers were all slightly open when we found them!!!” if they shouted that to the captors right away, then the value of the goods is diminished, and by saying bring her back and we will harm you could take the cazptors off their game. again she is close friends with anyone, and inst related to anyone. guess that is just what i would propose, even if it was myself captured. imagine the underlying resent from your follow colonists when you return and the food has run out.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Jacob
August 28, 2010 at 10:25 am

My opinion may be heartless but if you ask me I would not have even given up any of my hard earned supplies or gas for a person who was stupid enough to go out on their own and unarmed. I would have just told the kidnappers to keep her. Unless you are well trained in a hostage rescue situation and are well armed with firearms then a rescue is out of the question and in a survival situation, espcially an urban survival situation, food and supplies and even medical supplies are hard to come by and are precious. For me its survival of the fittest. In a situation like this you weed out the weak. Honestly if it was a blood relative then I might be looking at things sligtly different but I would never attempt anything without a firearm or at the very least a bow.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Pat H
August 28, 2010 at 7:15 pm

I don’t watch that survival show but I do watch Best Defense Survival
on Wed. on the Outdoor Channel. Very good, helpful advice.
Thanx for all your good ideas as well.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Zach C
August 29, 2010 at 8:43 pm

These people on this show are sheep from the beginning. They have no sense of survival, they know its a show and just have to survive a couple weeks, not for the rest of their lives.

That being said, right in episode 1 they had a chance to make MRE bombs, which would have come in handy against the mob that attacked them. Even here they continue to be subservient to anyone that challenges them.

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Vote -1 Vote +1john
August 29, 2010 at 11:38 pm

to pat h i also watch the best defense survival and they have good advice and ideas to jacob if its a familymember i would take action if not imediate family or close friends your on your own go find your own supplies and jermiey has a good plan to ambush your enemy and turn the tables on your enemy and take what they got and mp’s response is also good and thanks forthe feed back and when the crap hits the fan then those who are on yellow alert will be ready for anything because most people are on condition white which means they will be unprepaired and trying to take your own supplies as it goes back you need to get your first aid flashlights batteries food supplies ammo and guns rifles shot guns and pistal and the right ammo to supply and expired medical supplies and food as a deversion to keep the bad guys off sides and also never go alone always have your battle buddy and pistal with plenty of ammo with clip ready to go

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Vote -1 Vote +1Joy
August 30, 2010 at 8:33 am

Great comments! I completely agree with the comments about Becka being an obvious security risk and that the resentment will build when the food supplies have dwindled to nothing because of them giving away half of what they had due to her stupidity. I’m sorry but stupid behaviors should hurt. Pain is an excellent motivator. The colonists were too willing to give away food. They made a decision that they’d give a certian amount and no more and then shattered that decision. The kidnappers also told them we’ll be back. Of course they will, it was easy pickings. The fact that they are more than 2 weeks into this “experiment” and they do not have night watches set up is outrageous. If they had it is likely they could have prevented the setting of the fire in the previous episode. For me I’d say security is huge priority. Night watches after securing the compound, begin practicing self defense tactics in daily drills, make an absolute rule no one goes out alone and if you do and are kidnapped we will NOT negotiate. Granted I know that is unrealistic if it is a family member or small child, but in this situation Becka was foolish and compromised the safety and security of the group by her actions. Some people do self-select to be on the short list of expendables. Foodwise they do have flour and some sugar and apparently no one has the basic skill of making a sourdough starter or even bannock. If they would make bread it would be a huge morale booster. They had a few cans of milk left and could add water and make a Pioneer meal that was a staple for centuries- bread and gravy. As close as they are to a water source and the bayou they could scavange wild greens. As it is they are simply watching the supplies dwindle without focusing on ways to replenish the stock.
The success of making the windmill was amazing. My hat off to them except that it’s so visable it makes them a target for the bad guys.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Skeej
September 1, 2010 at 12:55 pm

Thinking back on the hostage situation in Episode 5 – with news since then on real world activity south of the border of US-

I’m chilled to realize I agree now with a poster above in re: “heartless” –
looking at past history on US kidnappings, something like 75% dont end well,

and apply current world trends- third world gangs kidnap as a matter of cash business, and the level of ruthlessness has rapidly progressed to Al Queda -like standards of morality.

Worst case, I would prepare for that worst case reality- which implies even more more dismal stats for likely outcomes, no matter how rational you may be, or well-meaning, or well-equipped to bargainm the bottomline is more often than not you are not getting that person back, no matter what you can offer.

So, that makes the point about going out alone even more important-
you simply cant allow any productive member of your group to get into a situtation, especially one as attractive as that healthy young woman, to become a piece of meat, or a bargaining chip,
or you WILL compromise the group survival.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Marcia
September 2, 2010 at 1:23 pm

Maybe next season they can use something like paintballs and if you get shot and “mortallly” wounded, you are off the show because you are “dead”. Other than that they can’t allow any real weapons to be used on a show. I realize that it will be necessary to use force in a survival situation at times, however, it does give me pause that there are many people out there that are a little too anxious to shoot someone. Even with no laws in place, there are moral consequences for taking someone’s life and I think it will be easier said than done for some. My husband and I are preparing and that includes owning and being able to use firearms but we don’t take that responsibility lightly. We will defend ourselves and our home but I would not be anxious to just have a shoot out with someone just because there are no laws in place. I watch as many survival shows as I can and learn as much as possible from that and sites like this. If you think the show is stupid, then don’t watch it. But please don’t discourage or sound insulting to those of us who want to learn. For those of you out there that are fully trained and experienced, that is great. Some of us are far more new at this and we have a lot to learn in a short span of time. Everybody is entitled to their opinion I know but we need positive input so we can learn, learn learn. Thanks everyone for the valuable info.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Don
September 5, 2010 at 8:49 am

Lot’s of comments here. The one thing that I wanted to point out is the editing of the show. When the woman is kidnapped and the colonists find the note, they decide to work on the windmill to keep their minds occupied (We are told this by a “psychologist expert”). The guy that came up with the design for the windmill ends up cutting his arm when climbing down from the roof. What I noticed was that the guy’s arm was bandaged when they got news of the kidnapping. So, that would mean they were working on the windmill before the kidnapping, he cut his arm, then she was abducted. BUT, they make it seem that they are shocked at the kidnapping that they have to keep their minds off it by being busy with work. Just an observation.

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Vote -1 Vote +1Marcia
September 6, 2010 at 9:02 am

Didn’t they start on the windmill before the kidnapping and then went back to it after they were informed? Not totally sure about this but I thought they had already started working on it. Good observation. Noticing everything is important especially for the real thing.

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Vote -1 Vote +1bountyhunter3
September 25, 2011 at 8:34 am

The Abduction was totally scripted. All the colonists were aware at all times what was going on. The scene was shot many times until they got it right. At no time was any real pepper spray used .. Read below and become enlightened.

http://community.discovery.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/17219151201/m/44219705801

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Vote -1 Vote +1Randell Neverman
March 15, 2012 at 12:37 pm

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